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Chaired by Michael Buerk this week's topic was a direct response to the recent statement made by the Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali. He had simply alluded to that which the Bible clearly teaches, a teaching that is not ambiguous nor difficult to discern, neither do we need the aid of an interpreter or any other assistance in understanding this truth - he referred to that which for two millennia Christians have understood, that the Bible clearly teaches that: practising homosexuality is, has always been and always will be, a sin and those who practise such things should not only stop doing so but also repent of ever having done so just as with any other sins such as murder, adultery, stealing, lying etc... this has always been and always will be a Biblical truth. You may have decided that it is not a sin, on what basis do you believe that? The Biblical definition of sin is the breaking of God's Law, that is a simple fact. If you do not agree with that then you need to accept that you do not believe that God's Word is true, that is simply ‘where you are at present’. That's actually a more honest place to be than trying to ‘bend’ or ‘pervert’ God's Word. If you're honest, what you need to ask yourself is this, do you want to bring your own life into line with God's Word [The Bible] or are you trying to ‘bend’ God's Word to your own will? Great men of God such as Luther, Wesley and Spurgeon accepted the Biblical truth that practising homosexuality was a sin yet we have many in the Church today falling for, not a ‘New Truth’ but rather an old lie. Were those great teachers Luther, Wesley and Spurgeon mistaken in their Biblical understanding regarding this relatively simple matter?

The four Panelist:
1. Michael Portillo - A former Cabinet Minister.
2. Claire Fox - Director of the Institute of Ideas.
3. Clifford Longley - Author, broadcaster and journalist.
4. Kenan Malik - Senior Visiting Fellow at the Department of Political, International and Policy Studies at the University of Surrey.

The four Witnesses
1. Gary Mc Farham - Until recently a relationship and sex therapist working for Relate.
2. Rev Sharon Ferguson - Chief Executive of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement.
3. Andrea Williams - Barrister and Director of Christian Concern for our Nation.
4. Dr. Stephen Laws - Lecturer and Philosopher as well as editor of The Royal Institute of Philosophy.

Regarding the panel's comments on The Bishop's statement. I was pleasantly surprised that although Portillo said he was a ‘fool’ and Fox a ‘bigot’ three of the four Panelists agreed that he should be able to air his views freely and without restriction, Kenan Malik on the other hand, appeared to want to cap or at least curb his speech as well as those who hold to similar views. Surprisingly it was Claire Fox who by her own admission is completely secular and to a lesser degree Michael Portillo, who saw the present and future dangers presented by the shear volume of legislation effecting the Christian faith. There are presently 116 separate pieces of legislation enforcing sexual orientation and equality rights in the United Kingdom, many of these conflicting directly with the Christian faith. Unsatisfied with the current state of affairs ‘The Gay Movement’ inside and outside of The Church is consistantly looking to secure more and more enforceable legislation - legislation that will in time further infringe on and eventually criminalize the Christian faith in this Country.

• Gary Mc Farham, as previously stated, was until recently a relationship and sex therapist working for the counseling service ‘Relate’, that was until they sacked him for refusing to advise and instruct a homosexual couple how to physically have homosexual sex.
  Romans 3:31
  Do we then nullify the Law
  by faith? God forbid! On the
  contrary, we establish the it
  As Gary is a Christian this would be teaching a fellow human how to break God's Law and would be similar to forcing a Police officer to instruct youngsters how to steal a car or break into homes. A Police Officer who believes in the values of the Law could not possibly teach others how to break them and still remain a Police Officer. Neither could Gary teach a person how to break God's Law and remain a Christian as Christians establish the Law, not break it. It should be remembered that what Gary believes is not some new fad or even an isolated personal view, but was laid down in black and white thousands of years ago by God. Still held by millions today more and more of which are being forced to suffer persecution or even death rather than deny their faith, this because of laws and attitudes the likes of which we are beginning to see appear in our legal system.
  
  Oddly, even-though Mr. Mc Farham rightly (In my view) made a stand and refused to teach a homosexual couple how to physically have homosexual sex, he confusingly would not stand by the Bishop's Biblical statement.   During his interview Malik in an attempt to link Gary's Biblical stance (not to teach homosexual sex) with racism and the BNP asked, “What if some reading the Bible believe it says that blacks are nasty evil people and so refused to deal with them on that basis?” There is no such basis in Christianity for anyone to make such an assertion as nowhere does the Bible instruct Christians to discriminate against anyone based on race, creed or colour as it clearly does in asserting that the ‘physical act’ of homosexuality is a sin. The point is there will always be and always has been devious people who will attempt to bend Scripture and use the law to their own evil ends. As Christians our desire should be to do God's will and based on Galitians 5:14 that is to ‘love our neighbour as ourself’ now if the fulfillment of the Law is to ‘love our neighbour as ourself’ how then can we teach others to break it? Especially knowing full-well that the wrath of God will come upon those who do such things, is that love? We are not called to join in or teach others how to break God's Law, nor are we called to physically prevent those who are themselves ‘bent’ on breaking God's law where all participants are willing. But as Jesus and millions before us we are called to warn people of the wrath of God that will certainly come upon the ungodly and further, to point a way of escape for those who want to turn from the captivity of sin and overcome it. Our Biblical cry is, as was The Bishop of Rochester's, John the Baptist's and Jesus' to: “Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand”. If you face God after death or in life at His return, a Christian's prayer is that you will meet Him with joy and peace in your heart rather than, fear and terror. In this present age of grace, we may live as we wish but the way we live our lives will be a testomony witnessing for or against us when we stand before a mighty, righteous and fearsome God.
  Revelation 22:11-12
  11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
  12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
• 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
  13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
  14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
  15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
  
  2 Peter 2:17-18
  17 These are springs without water, and mists driven by a storm; for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved.
  18 For, uttering great swelling words of vanity, they entice in the lusts of the flesh, by lasciviousness, those who are just escaping from them that live in error;
  

  Rev Sharon Ferguson

  Rev Sharon Ferguson said she considers The Bible as “The Inspired Word of God” but that since the Holy Spirit has now come and helps us better understand the Scriptures we can work things out for ourselves. With this new enlightenment of the Scriptures she believes that He has led her to the understanding that homosexuality is not a sin!  However, God the Holy Spirit has reiterated in the New Testament that which He clearly taught in the Old, that the act of homosexuality not only is a sin but also becomes a judgement upon those who do such things. She says that ‘The law of the Land’ trumps God's Word where they conflict. Apparently the homosexual act is fine because it is between two consenting adults even-though God denounces it in both Old and New Testaments. On this basis, if a dog mounts a man or a women and both are willing then it should be acceptable for them to have sex. If not why not as they are both consenting to this ungodly act? On this basis then, we can break the Mosaic Law regarding bestiality too (Leviticus 20:15-16). Sorry to be so vulgar but this is where this is all heading. Unfortunately it's only a matter of time before such things are publicly debated and the likes of bestiality fought for as a legal right to be promoted and exercised, as is homosexuality today. I know it seems impossible but then so did legalizing homosexuality not so very long ago, once the anchor breaks there is no telling where the tide of filth will wash us up, maybe “Bestiality Pride day”? You think I'm joking but on what Biblical grounds can Rev Ferguson possibly denounce the act of bestiality since she has, in the case of homosexuality annulled the law of Moses that opposed it. Therefore on what basis can homosexuality be acceptable but bestiality not? The Holy Spirit never contradicts God's Word and this is what happens when you reinterpret parts of God's Law for your own ends, you open the floodgates to sin. She then went on to denounce the Bishop's Scriptural statement based on her claim that “he was inciting hatred”. It is certainly true that some people's response to the truth is hatred and violence, however does this mean that the truth should be silenced? Should we then deny the Holocaust because some choose to respond to that truth with hatred? It appears that there are some who think we should.
• Andrea Williams, in the same vein as Jesus but maybe not quite so quick off the mark , when ‘push came to shove’ did not balk nor was she ashamed of the Word of God neither did she attempt to smooth over her Scriptural beliefs but affirmed them.  
  • Portillo - Should Christian adoption agencies discriminate against [practising] gay couples? Answer in short - Yes.
  • Portillo - Should Christian Schools discriminate against employing a [practising] gay teacher? Answer in short - Yes.
  • Portillo - Should Christian Schools discriminate against employing a [practising] gay gardner? Answer in short - Yes.
  Please be aware that the word ‘Discriminate’ can have two meanings:
  1. To recognize a distinction; differentiate and thus act on this information.
  2. Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people.
  I believe that Andrea was agreeing to the first meaning of the word discriminate.
  • Maybe we should ask Portillo if the Government should discriminate against employing Gary Stringfellow to run a department for vulnerable and exploited women or BNP leader Nick Griffin run a department to fight for the rights of minority groups in the UK.
  • Jesus didn't attempt to please everyone, He spoke the truth often knowing that His words would be rejected and then moved on, no smoothing things over and trying not to offend anyone, we should not be ashamed of The Truth nor concerned that many refuse to accept it. Our words are the sweet smell of salvation to some but the stench of death and condemnation to others.
  • To Love your neighbour is to tell them the truth, if a neigbour has lung cancer and you love them you will tell them the truth, to stop smoking or they will certainly die. This they may not want to hear and so you could incur their wrath and disfavor. Or you may choose the easy way out and tell them what they want to hear, ‘a lie’ this is what many Christians are doing regarding sin and in doing so they are not loving their neighbour because the Christian knows very well that the wrath of God abides upon those who practise sin [The breaking of God's Law].

  Next Mr. Portillo, as Malik before him (expecting Christians to respond to the Law as did the Jews until Messiah came ) goes on to ask if Andrea would promote the stoning of a young girl who loses her virginity while still living in her father's house as written in Deuteronomy 22:20-21 displaying his ignorance of the Scriptures. (I'll mention this a little further on) It was notable that even Longley never made any attempt to illuminate his fellow panel members regarding this subject!

  

  Andrea Williams

  Andrea highlighting the fact that because of the shear mass of new legislation recently created to protect areas like sexual orientation and equality, said that there are bound to be more and more conflicts with long established Christian values. What is really happening here is that some people are desperate to have their lower moral standards made ‘morally’ and legally acceptable but the one thing that wont budge and keeps getting in their way is, as always, God's Church standing firmly on God's unchanging Moral Law.
  God's Law is like a stake driven into the side of a wall that a man hangs-onto to prevent himself falling further into a sewer. That stake is immovable, no one can move it higher neither can any lower it, it has been set by God. The UK presently has one hand just managing to hold onto this stake while the other desperately tries to reach for something in the sewer. They say “If only we could force the Church to drop God's standard to our standard, if we could just get the government to enforce it by law then we could reach that which we desire with a clean conscience, God's blessing and the protection and honour of the Law.” Like a child reaching for that shiny razor blade the consequences of gaining their goal is frightening. After many years of attempting to hold onto any resemblance of God's standard the United Kingdom is, in my opinion, because of people like Rev Sharon Ferguson and Dr. Stephen Laws, about to fall. When we do fall there is nothing, nothing at all to stop us completely disappearing into the depths of the sewer of depravity. If we seriously think people like ‘Ferguson and Laws’ can set a standard that can be held, enforced and that will not be further challenged once we let go, we are desperately - desperately deceived  .

• 

  Dr. Stephen Laws

  Dr. Stephen Laws' main theme [apparently] was that the Government should remain neutral regarding ‘Freedom of Speech’ for both Christians and gays alike and that both parties should be able to express their views openly. However, he then goes on to reveal his true feelings on this subject by adding: “that although he doesn't want to stigmatize Christians, they are regarding this subject, morally wrong and mistaken” . But more than that, “that society should not allow Christian's to behave in such a way”. [Scripturally that is]  Not that he wants to stigmatize Christians . So it is Bible-believing Christians that should be marked-out as ‘worthy of disgrace or great disapproval’ (stigmatized) but not those who were marked-out in times past for breaking God's Law and doing that which was until very recently considered to be a disgraceful act, what a turn-around!  Many believe that ‘as a society’ we are moving ever forward into a healthier and much better place but those who know the truth know we are in fact moving into a disgraceful, vile and evil place where truth and decency are scorned but vile abominable acts are not only celebrated and protected but even promoted in the media, on the street and now in our schools too! They simply wont rest until children accept that this way of life is something they should consider, experiment with, celebrate and enjoy. 

Regarding Portillo's question about “The stoning of a young girl who loses her virginity while still living in her father's house” quoting Deuteronomy 22:20-21. What Portillo is trying to do, which is quite common nowadays, is attempt to place Christians in the impossible position of either having to say “The Law of Moses is done away with” or more embarrassingly, that which nobody would accept today “that Christians should promote the stoning of these type of Law breakers as the Law of Moses demands.” Neither statement is valid for the Christian nor ever has been as this response to the breaking of the Law of Moses was given to ‘The Jews’ under the Old Covenant and to ‘The Jews’ alone. Not only did their Messiah, when He came, demonstrate to them that this way of responding to the breaking of His Law was finished (as we shall shortly see) but that their method of ‘getting-right’ with God was no longer acceptable either. Why? this is because the Temple sacrificial system that He had always represented had now at last come to lay down His life as the final sacrifice for sin, not for the Jews only but for all Mankind. And He arrived as prophesied “right on time” just as their own Scriptures predicted! Confirmed later by the total destruction of both the City and the Temple in 70AD by Rome, foretold beforehand by Jesus. This way of responding to the breaking of God's law is now finished and had only ever been given to The Children of Israel and those who joined them. This was removed from them at the prophesied appearance of their Messiah, Christ Jesus who they rejected and crucified on a Cross as prophesied beforehand. Christians do not live under the Old Covenant but under the New, purchased by the blood [death] of Jesus.

As Bible believing Christians we know that although our response to those who break the Mosaic Law is not to be based on that which was given to the Jews before Christ came, yet those Laws still stand and are not only confirmed in the New Testament but shown to be of a much higher standard than the Jews had ever imagined. These Laws will remain until all things have been fulfilled. But for those of us who acknowledge Him as Lord and saviour, they have already been completely fulfilled in our lives by faith in Jesus who fulfilled them for us. Yet Jesus didn't live the perfect life to fulfill God's Law and then pay for our sins just so that we can continue to sin! Nor did He become a curse for us to take away the curses written against us who have broken the Mosaic Law just so that we can continue to break them, how ridiculous! No, rather first He fulfilled all the Law and then chose to pay for all the occasions we have broken it, taking upon Himself our sins. We are not to remain in bondage but to be set free from the power of sin.

If our sins cost Him so much, why would He want us to remain in them? Are we not called to become overcomers? Today, from His position of power and authority seated at the right-hand of The Father, He gives those of us who turn to Him the power to become ‘The Son's of God’ and to overcome sin. Yes at times we may stumble and fall but even then He gives us a way to get-right with Him once more by repentance [turning away from sin/breaking His Law], and so turning to Him in repentance leaving behind our sin we are daily being transformed into His likeness.

Turning our attention to just three items from the Mosaic law, three items that happen to be not only in the same chapter but almost in chronological order. We can see that God does not distinguish between them, to a Holy God they are all worthy of death.

• Leviticus 20:10
  And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
• Leviticus 20:13
  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.
• Leviticus 20:15-16
  15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
  16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

So studying these three verses carefully it becomes clear that God views them ‘equally’ as an affront to His high standard and any Jew caught committing such things were to be stoned to death under the old Jewish Covenant. Interestingly we have an example of one of these three laws having been broken by a Jewess in the New Testament, in fact Jesus Himself is asked to judge on the matter, the God who wrote the Law is asked to make a judgement based on His own Law! Now whatsoever Jesus judges stands for today for all three laws as they are all part of the same Mosaic Law and all are worthy of death in the eye's of God. That's for homosexuality, bestiality and adultery! And remember, that which Jesus judges is an example for how The Church is to respond to the breaking of these Laws by anyone. Compare His final Words to Bishop Ali's statement. In this case an adulteress who has been caught in the very act is brought before Jesus.

Why didn't Jesus command her to be stoned as the Law demands? Is it that the Law has now been done away with? However, notice Jesus' very last words to the women!

        ...go and sin no more...

So it was then and still is today, a sin and therefore worthy of punishment on that Great Day. In addition, though something has clearly changed regarding the punishment for breaking the Mosaic Law, she was not to continue breaking the Law [sinning]! If you believe, care or even if you don't care what Jesus said, the fact still remains that it has been laid-down in black and white for two thousand years that which Jesus, The Son of God (The author of a New and better Covenant) spoke regarding our attitude today towards the breaking the Mosaic Law, that it still is a sin and although we know all sin will be punishable on that great day we are not to enforce it. Because as Jesus' example demonstrated to us, something has changed, the command for immediate punishment for breaking the Mosaic Law, given to the Jews and the Jews alone is no longer to be enforced by man as we now live in a time of grace. At last a member of mankind has appeared for us and fulfilled all of the Law and although a punishment for sin has been deferred while we still live, the day of Judgement for our souls will surely take place. Therefore we can (in the eyes of God), while we still live freely break the Mosaic Law heaping upon ourselves evidence against our souls for that great day of God if we so choose, but that day of reckoning will surely come.

Rather than reinterpreting the Holy Scriptures so that sin is acceptable because the Holy Spirit has now ‘apparently’ given us a new understanding of the Scriptures regarding sin (breaking God's Law), as Rev Sharon Ferguson proposes, Jesus actually makes keeping the Law even harder...reiterating it's standing today!

What Jesus is doing is showing us that something is very wrong with the nature of all Mankind, you and me alike. He forced those self-righteous Jews who brought the adulterer before Him to search their own hearts and acknowledge to themselves that they too were sinners. He is asking us to do the same thing, not to judge other's but to warn them of the wrath that is to come and to the realization that we too are not only sinners but that we are of ourselves unable to meet God's high, but just standard. It was not only adultery Jesus was accusing them of but whosoever had sinned and broken any of the commandments of God. This has always been the point of the Law, to show mankind that he is not only out of favour with his maker but unable to ‘get-in favour’ with Him and thus doomed to suffer eternal separation. The point of the law is to give us a knowledge of sin and of our hopeless condition. Therefore an understanding that not only are we ‘given over’ to sin but helplessly unable to stop sinning, if you are not a Christian put it to the test, look at God's just Law and try to keep it! We can either harden our hearts to this knowledge or allow the Law to do that which it was put there for and point us towards Jesus the saviour of our souls. Until we look at God's Law we can not see or understand just how far we fall short of God's standard. The Jews realised this when Jesus said to them “He that is without sin [breaking God's Law] among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Yet many do not want to acknowledge their sin but rather carry-on in it, to do so they need to remove the only thing that reveals it to them, and that is God's Law. Far from doing away with the Law we need to establish it and this is only done by having faith in Him who fulfilled it, Jesus the Christ.

Please understand, there certainly are Christians teachers in Christian schools today who struggle with homosexuality (In fact every kind of sin [The breaking of God's Law]) and if they had not turned to Christ would be practising it, but chose instead to fall in line with the Word of God hating such things. Submitting to Christ He makes them ‘over-comers’ and worthy to be called after His name. Their attitude to sin is that it is wrong so they deny themselves picking-up their Cross daily looking to Him who can keep them from stumbling.

What people like Portillo are suggesting is that Christians schools should employ teachers, gardeners or whatever... who not only practise these sins but have totally opposing views to the whole basis of why the school ever sprung into existence in the first place. If a practising homosexual visits an established Church knowing full well the values it holds, rather than trying to force the Church to accept his unbiblical values he should go and start another church (Not being built on Biblical values it wouldn't actually be God's Church) that agrees with his apostate views. And if a practising homosexual teacher applies to join an established Christian school knowing it's biblical foundation he should hardly be disappointed when he is rejected, nor should he try to change or force by law the school's biblical stance just to suit his values. He should apply to a secular school.

Questions that really need to be asked:
1. Is the gay movement trying to force The Church to acknowledge to the World God's acceptance of their lifestyle?
2. Are some gays trying to force the Church to re-interpret Scripture to authenticate their lifestyles and thus ease their conscience?

If God's Word is a light guiding us along the good path, revealing to us what might cause us to stumble so that we may turn away and avoid it, it soon becomes clear why many do not want that light to shine in their lives as it will expose their deeds, in fact they hate the light (John 3:19-20).

Now you may have come to the conclusion that I am enjoying pointing my finger at everyone else. You couldn't be more mistaken, why do you think I ‘ran’ to Christ in the first place? Because I was or because I wasn't a sinner? Although I hadn't read the Bible at that time the conscience God had given me wouldn't stop convicting me of sin and that there was no way I was going to get away with anything, I knew somehow there was a day of reckoning. When at the age of 36 I picked-up and read the Old Testament for the first time, all my worst fears were confirmed, all that my conscience had been telling me was true. I had looked to alcohol to hide from it, searched into the New Age and many other “faiths” to understand it but there before me in the Old Testament for the first time was that which I had always known, that there was punishment for sin. Yet although I had always known it in my heart I could never find an answer to it. No not even in the Old Testament and nor could the Jews who tried to keep the law by their ‘deeds’ because the Law only gives us a knowledge of sin which convinces us that we are sinners. The Law itself wont save anyone, but it will point the honest soul to Jesus.

But when I at last read the New Testament I found the answer staring me in the face. Christ Jesus who not only lived the life I should have lived (by fulfilling the same Law that many today simply want to do away with) but paid a terrible price in my place. All as the the Scriptures foretold. With death having no legal right to hold Him He is today seated at the right-hand of all power, interceding on my behalf, for me who wears His righteousness, and that by faith in Him and what He has done, alone! And just as the Scriptures foretold of His first coming as a humble servant and a sacrifice for sin so He will return again a Second time just as the Scriptures have foretold. But this time not as a sacrifice for sin but as a judge to judge a World that loved the works of darkness rather than light. Those who wish to change or remove that Law which points many to salvation ought to think twice before they do, as it is the hope for many yet unborn, this law that pointed me to salvation and will keep multitudes of souls from sin, they wish to abolish or pervert it's meaning, as it stands between them and the sin they love so much. These people who pervert God's Word should fear as they will have to give an account for their actions before a fearsome God, especially those who say they are of the faith such as Rev Sharon Ferguson, may she too repent and turn from her sin that she may enter glory and eternal life.